Was Old Justice System Better? Is the New Justice System Broken?

4,731 views Wait, is this logic right? • Aug 26, 2023

Slog Reference: Old-fashioned Justice vs Modern Legal Systems

Description

The modern legal system is far from being perfect but is it broken? So, let's compare it with the old-fashioned justice system to get a surface-level understanding of where the modern system fails and what are the good qualities of the old-fashioned justice system.

Understanding the good and bads of both of these criminal justice systems will give you a clear perspective on both.

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Old-fashioned Justice vs Modern Legal Systems

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Transcript

- what if I told you that our modern justice system even if it worked perfectly is still bad in many ways right even if it worked perfectly even if it worked perfectly right even the theory is bad okay I would be very very surprised and I would have a very questioning look on my face let me take an example okay uh this is from the book The World until yesterday by Jared Diamond totally worth reading but yeah uh in New Guinea there was a small boy he suddenly darted in front of a vehicle on the road and there was an accident the boy died okay sorry the driver in that case immediately left the scene he didn't stick around uh he

0m 44s went to his company told the owner owner told him to go away to his village and stay there for a while until things settle down uh okay the owner then went looked up the boys parents right now it also turns out that the driver was from one community and the boy boys family from were from a different Community okay okay so what the owner of the company did was went uh he went to an elder in his own Community who is was experienced okay that Elder went and talked to another Elder in the other community okay they together discussed the situation discussed I mean they checked the fact that it was really not the driver's fault it was genuinely

1m 37s an accident and so on based on that they negotiated a settlement that both sides would be happy with okay okay settlement involved uh this side giving money and a bunch of food okay okay once the settlement was agreed in principle then afterwards uh the settlement had to be done formally okay so again the owner of the company took the drivers uncles brothers so a bunch of them went they went to the driver was still somewhere else yeah yeah Okay the reason the driver was somewhere else was because it is still possible that some hot-headed members of the boys Community yeah might get angry and you know kill him or do something bad uh and that

2m 30s neither side wants that right that would just escalate things yeah but so these guys went to the place where the boys Community lives in that Community there was a public formal function okay where these people first of all apologized right they said sorry for the loss they also pointed out that we would like to give you this money and this food to help you in this time of difficulty we understand that this is nothing compared to your loss but this is just we feel it will help you yeah and then uh they didn't say it was compensation because no yeah compensation you how do you compensate a boy's life right it is not compensation I mean in their language it

3m 20s is called sorry money okay right so money to say sorry yeah so sorry money here is money yeah so they give sorry money the boy's father accepted that this was an accident and accepted the sorry money and said thank you some other elders in the boys Community said that again they also said Thank you and they said that they now consider the matter closed right okay even even then the driver stayed away for some more time just to make sure that some random people don't get excited yeah and then in theory afterwards the driver could have come back and then everybody could have moved on in life okay now this is the this is like old-fashioned way of

4m 14s settling distribution this is nothing to do with the modern legal system correct in fact when the same incident the modern legal system also got involved right okay the police filed a case against the driver huh okay and as part of that case they decided that he was driving rashly note the victims are not claiming that he was driving rationally but police has decided they took away the driver's license so now the driver can't do a job no income and the driver has to keep coming to court twice a week and that involves waiting in the court half a day so the day is lost yeah right and then that case dragged on for two and a half years because you show up and

5m 04s the police isn't done yet the evidence isn't there this is not there then at some point when everything was in place the judge wasn't there and this just dragged on and on and then you know two and a half years later the case was finally dismissed right yeah now let us compare and contrast these two uh systems wow okay uh tough call Tough call as in I understand what the first system is about the first system is about basically getting closure of sorts and then moving on with I I it feels callous to say this but at the same time I understand what was attempted there and at the same time I also think that

5m 48s Justice is I'm confused let us first list what are the old system achieved okay a speedy and peaceful resolution the whole thing was over in five days not two and a half years correct the victims felt emotionally seen that's true that's true right because in public it was acknowledged that there was a loss right after all of this there was a restoration of the previous relationships of the two communities right go back to work and so on right there was actual compensation for the victims again we are not saying you know even money and food doesn't replace a boy but at least they got something yeah right which made them feel a little better I think there is a very

6m 35s interesting phrase called making them whole making them whole right uh and there was also some sort of punishment for the um offender I mean because he ended up having to pay right in fact it was more than that right because it is not just that offender I mean it is that offenders community and their community so it's not just those two people involved who have to be part of this settlement everybody was part of the second correct offenders family and at the end of it it allowed everybody to move on now let us compare this with what the modern legal system achieved by contrast the modern system was focused only on punishing the offender right because Justice because Justice it

7m 23s didn't really care about either making the victim whole or their emotional state none of that right in fact if the victims were at all involved in the system it would have been painful for them to be part of the whole proceedings right it would be worse than not and you know this yeah this happens in our cases and third thing is that the modern system was so focused on not making a mistake that everything drags out and in that just it you know penalizes everybody because even though ultimately the driver was exonerated he lost his job he lost so many days working days right so yeah by the way this I uh I should mention here this does this did

8m 09s not happen in India right New Guinea yeah very important but it could have happened in India right it could have it could have I'm just saying that this particular incident that you narrated did not happening in India yeah uh before people jump to conclusions yes don't jump to conclusions so yeah but man are you trying to say that the uh traditional says no not traditional but this other system of judgment or this other system of uh whatever is is better than the current let's see I'm not saying that it does it certainly has a lot of disadvantages and modern system certainly has a bunch of advantages right so just to take for example for example if those two Elders hadn't

8m 57s reached uh some sort of an agreement as to what uh is a reasonable compensation right or if the uh offenders Community hadn't agreed to pay that then things would have escalated and then uh things get really bad in the world systems right because then the solution would have been for the boys Community to kill somebody from the diverse community and then they would and it would just and it does happen it's a communities when you don't reach a settlement it just becomes a horrible thing that goes on for like Generations right uh also it works well if the two communities had decent relationships to start with and you are trying to restore those relations if the relations were

9m 44s bad to start with it is not going to work correct but the point of this episode is that we just automatically assume that the modern way of doing Justice is the correct thing I mean when I first read this example it was a revelation to me that the modern justice system does nothing for the victim it actually just puts the victim through a ringer unnecessarily right it is just focused on I want to punish this guy yeah right also it does nothing for restoring normal life right and it is so focused on not making a mistake that it drags out for 20 years that's true right so I'm saying I'm not saying that we should now despite the

10m 28s environment system right thank you I am saying that we need to be aware of a the shortcomings of the modern system and that there are other things which have other advantages right yeah because for a moment there it sounded like you were almost recommending a shadow government of sorts well actually this is true it happens right um is in the news for doing something really horrible correct what we forget and we plus because we have this preconceived notion that modern justice system is the best then every time you hear the word you assume that it is something horrible correct yeah correct what we forget is one there was a large number of cases where the panchayats handle things they

11m 27s handle it well with all those advantages correct speedily emotional needs are taken care of people can move on relationships are restored all of that right the problem is those things don't make the news okay if out of 3000 cases that a cup panchath handles three of them are terrible those three will make national news and you will assume that that system sucks so important point is don't assume that just because something isn't using the modern justice system that it is bad okay okay the example that you said makes complete sense and also I agree that uh it's usually the mistakes that get highlighted and not the successes in such cases because yeah that's why the spotlight Falls yeah but

12m 16s uh I'm just talking about Shadow governments right there are Shadow governments like this all over the world not just yeah so for example in the US uh the Amish community they don't like going to the courts right they have their own Community their Community is based around their church and the elders in the church take such decisions now that you mention it there are these communities in our lives also what what we usually call the samaj yes essentially that kind of a shadow government Community thing and we should keep in mind that this works all the time and this is probably a good thing right until it isn't also of course of course of course right everything

13m 02s in moderation limits just just you know don't be all the way to the extreme saying that the modern legal system is the only way of handling things right yeah because a lot of people are often disillusioned with the current legal system thinking yeah are I've been trying to get something sorted out in the code it's not working so why not just go back to that system is also an argument that you will hear from people is that is that right though well no as a the thing is that you don't want to get rid of the existing system what you want to do is before having see think of the model legal system as well

13m 38s like ultimate brahmastra right before that try these simpler things right not endorsed by the movie haven't watched it but again open to taking money from them if they are willingness one more uh situation where I think this kind of thinking can be uh important right which is that there are uh I mean at the level of society you have the modern legal system but there are other contexts right if there is a company within a company how do you handle disputes should you like recreate something similar to the modern legal system or could you be using one of these other techniques right in your extended family in your community right there there are places where you know you and I can

14m 23s actually influence things and maybe if we learned about the advantage and disadvantages of disturbed systems we can do something better than just going with the default to some extent I think this this idea about introducing this system in companies makes a lot of sense because oftentimes I have noticed that HR is in the middle of these two systems and not following either of them so please decide this or that don't sorry okay um pet peeve of mine so I mean that was generally the point of the episode but one thing I want to add which is that in this we discussed just one traditional method a traditional method in fact there are many traditional methods each with their

15m 12s own different strengths and weaknesses from uh you know things in Iceland to gypsies to Medieval England uh all very interesting and all I think worthy of being discussed so if you guys are interested let us know uh either in the comments here or just contact us if we get enough interest we will do an entire other episode on just other legal systems other than our own other Shadow governments yeah we are not uh don't yeah you know what I'm thinking and I know what you're thinking we are not we are not advocating for any Shadow governments to supplant the current governmental systems we are just we are just trying to explain we're just trying to educate is all nothing else

16m 04s thank you this is future IQ thank you for watching till the end if you liked this episode check out these others you might like them also and please share with your friends I'm sure they will also like this